Walter Cruttended serves as Director of the Binary Research Institute in Newport Beach, California, and the author of the best selling book, Lost Star of Myth and Time, as well as writer and producer of the award-winning documentary film, “The Great Year”.
BRI’s main focus is on understanding the cause and consequences of solar system motion, particularly the phenomenon of the precession of the equinox.
Walter’s work at the institute indicates that the mechanics of the well-known celestial motion have been misdiagnosed and are actually the result of our own solar system’s motion, and that this “motion” has profound effects on life, akin to the changing seasons. This discovery lends its validation to the world-wide ancient myth and folklore that our consciousness actually moves in a vast cycle of time, with alternating Dark and Golden ages.
Here’s the full transcript for this episode:
Steven: [0:01:39] Hey, Walter, thanks for joining us today.
Walter: [0:01:41] My pleasure.
Steven: [0:01:44] It’s such an honor to have you here on the show. We’ve really been looking forward to this one. I’ve been looking into your work for quite some time now and, obviously, the precession of the equinoxes is something that you’ve been studying for a very long time, and you really devoted your career to it. It’s amazing to hear your story. I’m really looking forward to diving into that. We’d like to know a little bit about how you started on this journey. What was your introduction to precession and thinking about why it all happens and where it all comes from?
Walter: [0:02:26] So it’s kind of curious. I guess I heard the term precession when I went through school, but I wasn’t really aware of it after that. I had always had a fascination with history and ancient cultures and was reading a book that was actually written in 1894, it’s called The Holy Science by Swami Sri Yukteswar. And in there, he gave a theory of history which really made a lot of sense to me. But he related it to the motion of the solar system and then talked about the backward movement of the equinoctial point and I had to actually go look it up and realize, “oh, yeah, he’s talking about precession”. And then I refreshed my memory on it. But, of course, the reason he gave for precession was very different than what I’d been taught in school and everything I read. And so it just set off this stampede in my mind to find out, “could this possibly be right? Because if it is, it’s going to change the whole world”. And so that was the book, The Holy Science.
Stefan: [0:03:44] I remember reading that book as well and noticing that line. It was a few years ago, and at the time, I had no idea where to look to pursue that idea, because it seemed like such a fine theory. And then we came across your work. You’ve been doing this for, I don’t know, 15 years, what was the point when the penny dropped and you thought, “right, there’s something to this”.
Walter: [0:04:10] Around the same time that I’d read that book, I started having a lot of dreams about this and I didn’t really have time for it, because I was so busy in work and everything. And then all of a sudden, I had a chance to sell a big interest in my business – this was around the year 2000 or so – and so I thought, “heck, it’s like everything’s been set up for me to pursue this very interesting problem”. And so that’s what I did.
I, of course, started reading every book I could on the subject and that led me to understand that there was a problem in the precession calculations done by the IAU (the International Astronomical Union). If you just read, say, one year, the latest year or something, you wouldn’t recognize the problem. But if you go back and you read 30 or 40 years’ worth of their bulletins and reports and stuff, you realize, “oh, they keep changing the formula, like every few years, just to try to make it match what observations show”. And so that’s when I realized that it’s not quite as simple as Newton had explained here and in fact, the theory had gone from Newton’s time, when they called it lunisolar causes, meaning primarily, the moon and the sun were affecting the earth causing it to wobble, to I think there’s something like 4000 inputs in the formula now. So they pulled in Jupiter, and Venus, and asteroids, and everything you can think of – tides and atmospheric conditions – to try to explain the actual changes in precession that occur each year.
Steven: [0:06:18] When we look at more modern scientific literature, looking back on the context always gives you an idea as to how we got there. It usually enlightens you as to potentially where there’s some downfall. And when I was reading your work, I was kind of seeing that happening. You’re taking us right back to Copernicus and Galileo, this idea, where we’re waking up from thinking that the planets and the sun revolve around the earth and that there is this bigger problem. It just boggles my mind that think that this problem was going back to such a fundamental shift in human society.
And it actually goes back a lot further too. There’s a book called Hamlet’s Mill that explores ancient cultures because we know that ancient cultures talked about precession, they measured it. They discussed, in quite a lot of detail, about precession in the ancient languages and how it goes potentially further back than even the Greats where we attribute it to.
Walter: [0:07:29] Yeah, it’s very true that ancient cultures make reference to it. They don’t always use the word precession, of course, but they definitely tied it to the changing of the ages and referred to it as almost like we would the seasons. Of course, Plato called it the Great Year or the Perfect Year. So there’s a lot of references. You might just read one, and it sounds kind of obscure, but then you read a whole body, which Hamlet’s Mill is great at – sort of drawing together all these glimpses of ancient cultures into one book. Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechend were just brilliant. And so you start to see this pattern that this is as common as talking about the weather is today. They were talking about precession 2000 years ago. And in fact, if you use the interpretation that we’re kind of evolving towards, it’s every bit as important as the weather because it talks about the backdrop, the circumstances for what life is like during different periods of time.
Stefan: [0:08:50] And that’s something that we found super fascinating, looking at these (I guess you can call them problems) where people don’t believe that there could have been a higher knowledge, or that there could have been other things passed down through generations. Why do you think there’s been such an adverse reaction to people possibly having this higher knowledge? Because I know it’s been a long process of people giving scathing attacks against researchers like yourself for even promoting the idea that the ancients potentially knew a lot more than we’re crediting them for.
Walter: [0:09:29] I think it’s well-intentioned. We came out of the Dark Ages, we got some knowledge, we thought that we’d figured out everything (of course we always think that). And we have evolved quite a bit since the Dark Ages, of course, but the theory of evolution has been applied so strongly that it kind of misses the ups and downs that might take place during very long periods of evolution. I think it’s really Darwin because, before that period of time, the Great Year was the dominant theory of history. Peoples all around the world – the Egyptians, the ancient Greeks, Polynesians, Nordic cultures, obviously the Mesopotamian Sumer, Akkad, Babylon, et cetera – all believed that history was cyclical.
And then when we went through the Dark Ages, much knowledge was lost all across the board, and then we emerged from there thinking we were fairly enlightened and with this theory of evolution. With evolution comes the thought that anything prior to us must be more primitive. It’s like they threw out everything, all ancient knowledge, all ancient wisdom. And I think it was just an initial reaction, but people are now starting to realize that evolution is far more nuanced than we once realized. Therefore, I think people are opening up to this idea that there could be seasons within evolution.
Steven: [0:11:24] It’s pretty interesting. There’s many scientific avenues going through this kind of awakening process. Evolution is a great example, where you go from Mendel to understanding Darwin’s theory of evolution, to the DNA helix, and then just in the last decades, we’re into epigenetics and quantum biology and the whole thing just get so amazingly complex, yet, you find this basing in understanding back in ancient principles. It’s amazing to see.
That really blew me away when I was reading your work on the precession of the equinoxes, because this seemed like such a long and difficult thing to measure. You look at how modern scientific astrophysicist equations people used to try and understand this stuff, yet there were people that described it, not in the same way we do, but they certainly qualified it in a way that showed some of these things. That just blew me away. It crosses the Yuga Cycle, the Mayans, their calendar system was amazing. How would you describe, today, a modern definition of the precession of the equinoxes, because it’s not something that people on the street really talk about? In the astrophysicist community, how do we define it?
Walter: [0:12:58] It’s a good point because I like to talk about the observable; what do you notice, outwardly? Therefore, I relate it to the other two motions of the earth. So what you notice, the observable from the earth’s rotation (Copernicus’s first motion of the earth), is that the sun and all the stars, rise in the east and set in the west, and it’s not because they’re all moving around us. Of course, it’s because we’re rotating. And so people logically buy that that observable is caused by that celestial motion, the rotation of the earth.
Then the second motion that we’re all familiar with, of course, is the earth revolves around the sun in a huge orbit every year and that causes a different observable. Instead of the stars going around us every day, if you look carefully, there’s a different constellation overhead, roughly each month. And that’s why we use the 12 constellations of the Zodiac, even in modern astronomy, as a coordinate system to find out where a particular planet is, or something like that. So, right now, I guess, if you see Jupiter, which is easy to spot in the early evening, you’ll notice as it darkens a little bit, “oh, there’s a constellation of Scorpio”, so Jupiter is in Scorpio. It’s just a quick way to aim your telescopes and figure out where something is. But anyway, that’s a clear observable due to a celestial motion.
Then we get to precession and of course it’s a much longer period of time, it’s not just a day, it’s not just a year, it’s over 20,000 years (close to 25,000 years). And therefore, the amount of change you would notice in a given period of time is very small – it’s roughly one degree every 71 and a half years at the current rate. So it would take a lifetime just to notice a one-degree change. But that’s how I describe it to people. You look at the equinox, and you see what constellation it happens to fall in. And you will notice that, over a period of time, it’s slightly moving through that equinox. Of course we’ve all heard of the dawning of the Age of Aquarius, and of course everyone nods ‘yes’, thanks to the movie or the play. And so people can kind of understand, “oh, yeah, so it’s this very slow motion of the stars”. So that’s the observable.
Now, the reason that’s given for it, they kind of mix it in, and so they say that precession is… and then rather than talk about the observable, they talk about what they think are its causes – it’s caused by the wobbling of the earth, which is caused by the gravity of the sun and the moon tugging on the earth. So because they don’t actually talk much about the observable, it makes the problem very difficult to identify. I hope I’m not getting too complicated for your listeners, but I think that’s the crux of why we don’t understand precession today. But if you look at this other theory for precession, that it’s actually the observable from a solar system in motion, slowly curving through space and as it does so, you’ll see different points in the sky, just like the earth going around the sun would see different points of the sky at different times, then I think people can understand, “oh, yeah, so it’s just like that, but on a very long scale”.
Steven: [0:17:11] Yeah, it’s such a true reflection of our time – understanding that we’re revolving around the sun, and then deciding, “yeah, that’s it, let’s not look any further”. I feel like that’s such a problem that we have in many ways at the moment on this planet is a very limited perspectives and not being able to see past our own mind’s eye.
Walter: [0:17:39] But I totally have sympathy for Copernicus. It’s 1483, you’re not even out of the Dark Ages yet, they’re pretty nasty times, and he’s just kind of corrected Ptolemy’s system. He had five books in his possession when died – three of them were ancient Greek, one of them talked about Aristarchus of Samos who had talked about the heliocentric system (the sun in the middle) versus the geocentric system that Copernicus and all the Dark Ages had grown up in. And so for him to straighten it out and say, “okay, guys, it’s not that the earth is in the center, the sun’s in the center, but the earth is spinning, and that’s why you see what you see”, he had to have a stable sun. And he couldn’t say, at the same time, “but the sun is also moving”. It would just have been too much to get people to accept. And so he wrote his book, Dē revolutionibus, which was actually pretty well received for the time. Did you ever hear a story like that about [inaudible 0:18:58]?
Steven: [0:18:59] No…
Walter: [0:19:00] There’s a guy, Owen, I think is his name, who went to Harvard, and he tried to track down how many copies of that book were still around, expecting only to maybe find a dozen or something like that. And, the reason is, of course, the church had banned the book, at least passages of it that were supposed to be excluded. So he went around, and he’s actually found now over 600 copies in the world, and they’re in private collections and libraries and things like that. And he’s learned a lot, reading the margins, and seeing who actually crossed out what the church told them to cross out. And the only people that did that were right around Rome, and everybody else that had the books, all the rest of the world, didn’t buy into the censorship.
But anyway, you could see how it would have been tough for Copernicus to explain that the sun is in the center, and that explains everything, and also the sun is moving, that’s the only way you can explain precession. So he didn’t even attempt to explain precession.
Stefan: [0:20:17] That’s such a common story among all scientific disciplines that we’ve been discovering from doing Human Origin projects. It’s sort of the same story – a huge idea comes forward, and it’s rejected and rejected and rejected, until finally, hundreds of years later, people turn back and say, “oh, yeah, actually, that was right”. And it’s funny that it’s a very common reaction to be like, “no, no, no [inaudible 0:20:44], let’s not talk about that. So, in regards to the current models of precession, could you talk us through why they don’t really work, why the mathematics don’t really work when you use a stable sun as the base?
Walter: [0:21:05] Sure. Just very quickly, though, if anybody’s listening and wanted to read that backstory on Copernicus, the name of the book is called The Book Nobody Read. That’s the title. It’s all about Dē revolutionibus, and the author is Owen Gingerich. He really is a great scholar, does a terrific job.
Steven: [0:21:30] Great, we’ll put that in the show notes for anyone that’s interested.
Walter: [0:21:34] So your particular question had to do with how the motion of the sun… Can you repeat it one more time?
Stefan: [0:21:43] Yeah, sure. It was pretty much just asking if you can describe to us the problems with the current lunisolar models that try and account for precession.
Walter: [0:21:55] A few hundred years after Copernicus, people were trying to explain this third motion. He said there’s rotation, revolution, and libration, which is his word for precession. And Newton came along and said, “well, it must be due to gravity”, because that was a period of time we were explaining everything through Newton. He laid out a formula for it, and it looked pretty good at first, but it took a long time to sort of match this formula against the actual observations for people to realize, “oh, Newton’s wrong here, it just doesn’t work”. And of course, you can’t say that Newton’s wrong, that sounds blasphemous. So you just say, “he must have made one or two small errors, or left a few things out, and we’ll just help correct this”.
And so what happens is, there’s a whole series of people that come along (I mentioned some of them in my book and various papers) that start to add all these different components, and each person thinks, “ah! with just this one additional component, we will fix the precession formula”, trying not to break the explanation, because the explanation that Newton gave is consistent with Copernicus. That’s how science builds. You always want to be consistent with the prior scientists, so you’ll be more believable. But it just turns out that no matter how much you added to Newton’s formula, you couldn’t quite fix it. But we’re still trying to do that today. Even though many scientists today recognize that the sun does actually move, but believe it or not, they don’t account for any motion of the sun in the precession formula. It’s a legacy problem.
That’s why I was so thrilled when I came across the explanation given by Sri Yukteswar, and you could kind of test it pretty easily. And that’s what we did. We said, “oh, if it’s actually due to a moving sun/a moving solar system rather than all these other things impacting an immovable solar system then we only need a few components” since, primarily, Kepler’s laws were applying – what’s the rate of the curve through space? So we used the basic numbers that Sri Yukteswar gave us and then looked at the precession figures going back to the last few hundred years (the rate of change), and realized that this new way, this Sri Yukteswar way of looking at precession is actually more consistent with the actual precession observations. And therefore you can make it more predictable with only about six components versus the thousands that are in the current lunisolar theory.
Steven: [0:25:27] It’s amazing, what you think is fundamental to our understanding of the cosmos, and what we observe has such a deep-seated problem in it. I remember watching your documentary and seeing the 12 constellations circling around as observe them. It’s like a huge clock. And really, the precession of the equinoxes is like this huge clock, where the equinox rises like the hand of the 12-hour clock that we look at every day, and we look at the different constellations in this period of this larger cycle of time –-
Walter: [0:26:11] Can you hear me? I can’t hear you…
Steven: [0:26:13] That really kind of changed my idea of time….
Walter: [00:26:17.29] Hello? I’ve lost connection.
Steven: [0:26:20] And then when you start to think about these problems with the lunisolar, the idea that we explained it by the gravity of the moon and the earth, which makes a lot of sense when you see those. There’s plenty of –
[0:26:34] crosstalk
Steven: [0:26:39] But then when you think about it like you say, we know there’s movement of the sun, and then all of the stories since then really start to show that there’s more to it, and it starts to reveal itself in different ways. Like the solar system, for instance, I didn’t know this until I read your work, has a defined boundary. And that’s something that we only relatively discovered recently. There was always a piece of the puzzle that really kind of came out.
Walter: [0:27:16] Can you hear me okay? You cut out for just a little bit there. I think we lost power in the building here briefly. I’m not sure what happened. But it sounds like you’re onto a really great question. Can you just summarize it for me?
Steven: [0:27:35] Yeah. So, basically, since [inaudible 0:27:39] tried to fix the Copernican problem with all these different fixes to the Newtonian calculations, there’s all these other areas of evidence that have shown that the solar system has a sheer edge, that the sun moves, there’s a momentum problem with the sun, and all these different lines of evidence started to show that there’s much more to explain precession. And it actually becomes more simple when we look at that larger context and see the solar system moving. The solar system, being a moving object, it’s like a boat, isn’t it? A lot of that evidence has vindicated all your hunches on precession. Can you take us through some of the new discoveries?
Walter: [0:28:39] I’ve written some papers on that that you can find at the Binary Research Institute. It’s fascinating that there is a tremendous amount of science that’s going on in the whole discovery of our solar system. We’ve been sending all these probes out now for about 30 years or so, and it seems like more and more pieces of the puzzle are coming together.
The Voyager 1 and 2 were supposed to go out to the edges of the solar system and find out what it was like, and, of course, they found out that it’s not a heliosphere at all, it does appear to be more asymmetrical, as if it is moving. So there’s a lot of indications that the solar system is moving at a very high rate of speed. And that, of course, lends credence to the whole idea that there should be some observable to this. Of course, the observable has been there all along right in front of our eyes, we just misdiagnosed it. We kind of said it was due to a wobbling earth when actually our whole solar system is moving at this incredible rate.
Stefan: [0:30:03] Wasn’t the Voyager mission deemed a failure because they left the earth trying to observe the wobble and they couldn’t do that? They could still see precession was happening from outside of the earth.
Walter: [0:30:16] They actually weren’t looking at the precession problem. Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 did flybys of the various outer planets (I can’t recall which ones off the top my head), but I think Voyager 2 used Jupiter’s gravity to sort of slingshot and go off in one direction. Voyager 1 was a little more slow-moving. But anyway, when they got out to the heliosphere, you would expect that, if it’s a sphere, as the name implies, there’d be roughly equal distances from the sun. And of course, that was found not to be the case. It’s not so much that they were looking for precession issues, but some of the data they found helped us better understand something that helps us understand precession, and that is, that the solar system is moving at a high rate of speed.
I think you might be referring to Gravity Probe B, which was a joint venture between Stanford and NASA. They primarily sent up a probe that would go into a polar orbit, and it was this perfect gyro. They actually weren’t looking at the ordinary procession problem, because they assume that’s all fixed and well known, but we’re looking at Einstein’s relativity problem, which is a type of precession if you will. He says that any big mass will bend space a little bit. So they were trying to pick up that. And in doing so, they got some strange readings.
I was actually in touch with Stanford before they sent it into space, and I said, “you’re going to find something very unusual”. I think they probably put my letter into the crackpot pile. But after they did find stuff that was unusual, I think it was 12-18 months into the project, they were pulling their hair out trying to figure out what’s going on. NASA was giving Stanford some trouble saying, “well, what’s going on, how come we’re not getting clean data?” because they just thought it was noise.
I’d basically predicted that if precession is due to the motion of the solar system, then you’re going to see a signal from that. So one thing that you’ll see is every orbit you make around the earth in your polar orbit, you record that, and then another signal you’ll start to pick up as the whole earth is moving, your probe, which is attached to the earth and orbit around it, will be picking up part of that orbit. But they’ll be a third one, but it’ll be very subtle and in the background, and that’s the one. They then called me up and said, “hey, how’d you like to visit Stanford, we’d like to give you a tour?” I said, “oh, I’d love it”. So I went and ended up meeting with all the top guys and they started saying, “how did you know there was going to be noise here?”
They never actually admitted that it was due to an incorrect theory about precession. But I think they appreciated having a different way to explain it. If you read the history of that project, NASA ended up giving them an F, because they failed to properly detect Einstein’s theory. And then they went out and got some private money, after raising like 800 million from the government, they got another like, half a million from a Saudi guy to finish it up. And they said they corrected the data to prove Einstein and then they shut the books on the project.
Steven: [0:34:58] It’s amazing to see. You discussed this idea of precession being the cause of the second motion and it never really cut through? It didn’t sound like they really admitted or looked into it very deeply. They were just trying to find their own [inaudible 0:35:21] data points that they thought they would find.
Walter: [0:35:27] Yeah. Some of the guys were less guarded than others. The program heads were kind of guarded, of course, but a few guys in the room, when we got into it a little bit (I had brought Geoff Marcy with me, he was head of astronomy at Berkeley at the time, just so I had at least one extra guy on my side of the table), they said, “wow, wouldn’t that be interesting if we’re near a big star that we can’t see, something that’s pulling on the earth, and that’s what’s causing our noise”. So they were assuming it was a black hole. And this was long before Mike Brown and the guys at Caltech started claiming that there’s some ninth planet – some big mass that’s pulling our whole solar system. So yeah, it was really interesting to hear that from the Stanford guys. Have you been following what’s going on at Caltech?
Stefan: [0:36:30] No, not too closely. Only from what we’ve heard you talk about and there are a few other authors that talk about, not so much precession, but other astronomical phenomena that are mentioning it quite a lot. It’s interesting now that they are openly looking for another planet or another object that our solar system is potentially in a binary pairing with. It must be really nice for you, doing this for so long to finally have people catching up and sort of cluing into the understanding that there might be some truth in what you’ve been working so hard on.
Walter: [0:37:15] Thank you very much, I appreciate you saying that. Because when you work on something for 15-20 years, and nobody acknowledges it, it kind of gets to you. You need a little cheering up now and then. But to have Caltech come out, and Mike Brown and Batygin, basically saying, “there’s got to be some mass out there”, and then to watch the way that’s evolved, that they keep finding more and more things that are affected.
As you probably recall, they first noticed that the dwarf planets were having these long, extended orbits that were inclined to the plane of our solar system. And one or two, couldn’t have just been random, some reason they don’t know, but when they saw a bunch of them, sort of all pulled in the same direction, with all similar perihelions (their closest point to the sun), they just said, “wow, this can’t be a coincidence, there must be something affecting that”. So they’ve been looking. I think they were looking just by themselves without telling anybody else for a while, hoping they could make the big discovery. But they’ve since opened it up, told the world. So as they’ve told the world, more and more telescopes are pointing in this same direction, roughly in the direction of Sirius/Orion, looking for some big mass.
But they’ve also found other indicators. So it’s not just the dwarf planets that are splayed out with these very elongated orbits and inclined, but even the major masses in our universe – Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune, are being dragged down about 6% below the plane of the solar system where it should be, based on the sun’s gravity. And that is a problem that actually people have known about for 100 years, but they didn’t have an explanation. So it was just a little factoid that sat around in the history books. And now, they’ve used it as evidence that this mass that is out there has to be not just 1-2 earth masses, but they’re now up to about 10-20 earth masses. And also the periodicity has grown. At first, they were thinking maybe it’s 5000 years, 7000 years, 12,000 years, now, they’re up near 20,000 years. So they’re getting very close to the actual precession number.
So all this stuff is going on, but what’s amazing though, is whenever we’ve noticed perturbations in the other orbits, they find the perturbing object pretty quickly. When Uranus gave us some signals that something else might be out there, they found Neptune within 48 hours. When Neptune gave us some signals that there might be something else out there, they had to watch the orbit for a period of time, they found Pluto within 24 hours using 1931 technology. And now, we find something that’s perturbing the entire solar system, all the big masses, all the little masses, and it’s supposed to be much, much larger than Pluto by 100x or something like that, and they’ve been looking for two years and haven’t found it, with all the modern technology. So it just is one more clue that it isn’t a planet, it is something bigger going on. And that’s why I’m so excited.
Steven: [0:41:04] It is really exciting too, and in the broader understanding of the universe, we’ve kind of moved towards the fact that most stars are in binary systems, aren’t they? When was all that happening? Can you explain how binary systems work? Because we’re talking about this motion, our solar system in movement. That was actually one image from your documentary that really, really blew my mind was seeing our sun in motion through space, and the planets going around in its orbits while it’s hurtling in its own orbit. It really changes your consciousness to really see this other third motion that, like you say, all the evidence is showing us that it’s there.
How the binary systems work, and what are the implications? Because when we go back to the ancients, they talk about these different times and effects, and we know the physiological effects that the sun has on the earth – day and night, Vitamin D3, melatonin – our bodies are intricately connected to the cosmic energies of the sun. What are the implications of a binary system? And are we heading into, potentially, a time of [inaudible 0:42:32]
Walter: [0:42:35] Wow, that’s a huge question. You’re right. As amazing as it is to discover that there is something gigantic that is affecting our entire solar system from a gravitational standpoint, it’s a thousand times more amazing to then start to realize that it’s affecting all of history and consciousness in a pattern very similar to the seasons, and the implications that has. That’s kind of why this problem was so fun because it has such huge ramifications. Just discovering that there’s a big mass that’s affecting our whole solar system, what’s even a thousand times more amazing is the implications that it has. Because it means that these ancient myths from all around the world, as they were documented in Hamlet’s Mill and other places, have some truth to them.
And so I think instead of denigrating our ancestors as being more primitive than we are, we now start to mine our ancestors’ information and ancient wisdom, and ask, “why are they building pyramids and ziggurats and [inaudible 0:44:09]? Why so many different types of objects? And what sort of vibrations they emit are subtle energies? How do they interact with electromagnetism and our sun? Why was there this worldwide interest in building them, and how can we use them today? I just think there’s just thousands of questions that pop up when we realize that we’re going through cycles.
And if you really study the cycles, because there’s a fair amount written about them in the Greek culture and in the Indian culture, where they called them Yugas, it can actually give you a glimpse into what things might be like in the future. And I think we can do a much better job at planning. Something I like to say is, it’s like we’ve all had amnesia because we’ve forgotten this huge part of our history, and the pattern of history. And when we remember that the Yugas or the cycle of the Great Year is real, it changes our perspective, and I think brings a healing to mankind.
Steven: [0:45:2] It’s interesting because when I started looking at your explanations of binary stars, I began to think of physiology. So it really began to make me think of what we know. You mentioned that all of this came to you through dreaming, what your subconscious told you while you were while you’re asleep. You say this idea of amnesia, have we gone through a period of relative sleep, and we are waking up to the fact, via the motion of the precession of the equinoxes, and moving maybe into a new field of, whether we call it Age of Energy? We know there’s many cosmic influences from many different types of energy, and really, the force that a binary partner would have on our system would be beyond our thinking. It just blows my mind to think about that. Astronomically, as stars are born and are taking different orbits, how does this work – the mechanics? And what could we take from this model and thinking about how we live in this?
Walter: [0:46:43] Actually, there’s a lot of study going on right now about how stars are born, why so many of them form in pairs/binary systems – I think it’s something like 80% of all stars. They’re not exactly certain, of course. These are big, big questions. But the fact that these celestial events seem to affect our consciousness is pretty easy to understand, in my opinion. Maybe not the exact mechanics, but if you think about just the earth revolving on its axis, and our bodies are adapted to the light of the sun, so we actually change states. We go from a waking state, when we’re mostly in the light, to a subconscious state, when we’re mostly in the dark. It’s a huge change, but it happens so frequently, every day, literally, that we don’t think much about it. But if it’s happening on a daily basis, and the annual motion is affecting all the seasons, and librations, and spawning, and hibernations and all this, it’s affecting trillions of plants and creatures. Then you can start to realize that, “okay, so if there is a third orbit of some type, it’s not a simple rotation or revolution, it’s the actual entire solar system with all these rotating/revolving bodies going around something even greater, it too must have an awfully massive effect. But that effect, of course, is over a very long period of time and so we hardly notice it, except over long term.
Steven: [0:48:42] If two stars are created and their masses are different, their orbits will be different – one will take a slightly wider path. So the fact that we don’t know about this, is it possible that we are orbiting around a much bigger partner and we’ve taken a very wide path and, potentially, maybe moving back into its closer presence?
Walter: [0:49:11] I think we’re just at the early stages of really understanding how solar systems, multiple star systems, stellar neighborhoods, and galaxies work. It’s only a few hundred years since we kind of figured out our solar system, and now we’re starting to figure out it might have a partner, but there’s much bigger motions going on. What stands out to me is that there’s effects going on at a much greater distance than we earlier thought.
So we do know that there is closer to a trillion stars (I think is the latest estimate) in our galaxy. I think when I wrote my book, it was like 400 billion. But that all the stars seem to be going around the Milky Way itself, and when you look at other galaxies, there’s something that’s holding them there. Because we don’t see enough mass to cause that gravity, we have to turn to exotic explanations that we still don’t understand. Of course, one of those is dark matter, and another is dark energy. Man, we are so early in this thing, I can’t even comment anymore.
Stefan: [0:50:39] That’s been a real interest of mine since we’ve undertaken this project. I had so many preconceived ideas that everyone had things figured out and we were just going to be learning what everybody knew, but the further you look to each specific discipline, you realize that we’re still just scratching the surface on so many different problems, and so many different issues that are so fundamental, as fundamental as the seasons are or day and night cycles are to the human body. We might be missing this whole larger picture that’s potentially influencing, as you said, every life form on the planet, just in a very more subtle way.
Walter: [0:51:19] I had a friend… I’m sorry, you go ahead.
Stefan: [0:51:25] No, sorry, go on. I’ll ask you in a second.
Walter: [0:51:30] So we have this conference every year, it’s called the Conference on Precession and Ancient Knowledge, just about every year. And we have our 11th one coming up this year at the Marriott Hotel, in Newport Beach, October 4-6, where we bring together a bunch of scientists in different fields to look at this idea of a Great Year, and how it’s going to affect everything, and how that can help us better understand ancient cultures, et cetera.
One of the speakers we’ve had one or two years is Gary Evans, he’s a really good friend of mine. He’s in England, and he does something called ‘forest bathing’. When he first told me that you go out in the forest, you take a bath… He says that they realized that nature is really important to our mental health and our physical wellbeing in many subtle ways that we’re just beginning to understand. And so he’s working with many of the big universities in England – they take people out to the forest, and then they do A/B tests and stuff.
And it appears that the trees and plants are emitting something we need, not only oxygen, of course, but other subtle elements. They’re finding they can have curative effects, especially in some of these subtle things that affect great parts of our modern society as stress, anxiety, depression, stuff like that. Isn’t that amazing work! That just getting back to nature and realizing that having a lot of trees and having things very natural around us can be tremendously beneficial to our health and wellbeing. I think that’s the type of knowledge we’ll be discovering more and more as we start to really learn from our ancient ancestors, rather than just ignoring them.
Steven: [0:53:46] Absolutely. When you just look at what we knew about the 20th century model physiology, and this idea that we were stuck in this very matter-of-fact basic understanding of the body. But we’ve moved into this idea of the human microbiome and genetics, and now the quantum effects of energies, like you said, and nature has these very, very subtle ways of affecting us. It’s just fascinating. To finish up and we’ll talk about that because you’re really excited about the conference, what do you think will be the turning point for the scientific community to confirm that the sun is binary? When will that Copernican revolution happen, in your mind?
Walter: [0:54:40] Oh, I think we’re getting pretty close, within a decade or two, maybe. There’s an old saying, “science evolves at the rate at which old scientists die”. Sometimes you have to have the old people that are protecting the old ideas just kind of stop defending them before the new ideas are really thoroughly discussed and more accepted. But the building amount of evidence that’s taking place, to me, it’s reaching a crescendo. Never have we gone this long, knowing that something massive is affecting our solar system, without being able to find it. So it’s just a matter of time before some brave souls say, “well, maybe it could be something besides a planet”.
And I think that’s where Einstein pointed the way. Just a couple of years ago, they were able to confirm Einstein’s theory of gravity waves, which is important because I think there’s a missing element – it’s that we need to understand how bodies can affect us at a greater distance than we heretofore believe. And when we can find that missing link, which is probably some sort of gravity wave, then I think it’ll open the field to, instead of just looking for nearby masses, they’ll consider what stars and what star systems could be affecting us nearby. And, to me, the Sirius star system is one of the most interesting because it’s very close, it’s the deepest, heaviest thing in local space – meaning on the Einstein grid it makes the deepest dent because it’s three solar masses. And it has a very special star Sirius B that goes around Sirius A that our own solar system seems to be in resonance with. So I think Sirius B is creating this big gravity wall around Sirius A and it’s causing gravity waves. And that’s somehow strengthening the connection between our systems.
I know it’s not enough to put a paper together on, but that is the direction that most of the major telescopes are now pointed, looking for a ninth planet. So I think we’re getting close.
Stefan: [0:57:27] It’s so fascinating, isn’t it? You mentioned the Sirius star system, how in ancient times, Sirius was used as the benchmark to starting the year, something that the Gregorian calendar has sort of lost. But for many ancient cultures, Sirius was this almost beacon to them. There’d be so much mythology, and so many stories, and so much science going into studying Sirius and understanding its orbit and remembering exactly where it is in the sky. It seems like that connection with Sirius has been embedded in cultures since day one, almost.
Walter: [0:58:08] Yeah, there’s a lot of mysterious myth and folklore about Sirius out there. Plus, a lot of scientists have noticed unusual features about it. And so I think it’s a great candidate for us to look at.
Stefan: [0:58:23] It’s so interesting when ancient thought and modern science start to meet, and I feel it’s like happening more and more often in so many different fields. It’s a really exciting time to be involved in all this. You must be over the moon that it’s all starting to come together.
Walter: [0:58:40] I am. And I wish it was a simpler problem, but I guess the more complex problems are actually more fun. You get a longer time to work on the puzzle.
Stefan: [0:58:54] Well, credit to you, Walter. You can certainly tell that you’re a person that likes to dive into the detail and really see through the evidence. So, kudos to you for all the work you put into this. Tell us a little bit more about CPAK because we’re really excited about that and this discussion that you will be having about precession and its effect on humanity, and where all this leads. I really hope that it’s not 10 years before the scientific community admits this, and hopefully, this conversation starts to resonate a bit more widely sooner.
Walter: [0:59:30] Yeah, these things do unfold. When you read that book by Owen Gingerich, you realize that a lot of people were buying into a Copernican system actually well before Copernicus wrote about it. And then, even though he wrote about it, that predated 1483 (the date the book was published), it then took a few hundred years until it was widely accepted after that. There’s no clear demarcation of these things.
But anyway, we do talk about all the implications of a binary system, and how it affects anthropology, archaeology, astronomy, just the whole way we look at history. Dr. Schoch will be there – he’s a geologist from Boston University famed for stating that the Sphinx and many structures on the Giza pyramid are probably far older than earlier thought. He, and others will also be talking about Göbekli Tepe. I would just refer people to the website, it’s cpakonline.com and you can read about all the speakers that will be there. And of course, all of your audience’s invited to attend. It’s going to be a fun thing.
Steven: [1:01:03] It’s a great event you’ve put together and I think it’s important that these conversations are brought together and happening. And especially people like yourself and Dr. Schoch that have devoted their lives to really understanding very difficult problems, I want to thank you very much for that. The way you’re devoting so much energy and passion to this is, it’s really refreshing. I really encourage people to read your book on precession, Lost Star of Myth and Time, and also check out your documentary if they’re interested in this because it really brings together a lot of difficult scientific information in an enjoyable and digestible fashion.
Walter: [1:01:46] Well, thanks. It’s on Audible book or Kindle book, so you can just listen to it if you like.
Stefan: [1:01:53] Awesome. Thanks so much for joining us today, Walter. It’s been so interesting talking to you, and we’re looking forward to seeing you at CPAK.
Walter: [1:02:00] Good! I’ll look forward to that. Thanks so much. Take care guys.
Steven: [1:02:05] Thanks, Walter. Bye.
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